As of March 26, the Crossville Forums survey begins to expose residents' attitudes towards any and all statues on the courthouse lawn.
What do you think should be displayed?
Anything and everything
[ 8 votes ] [12.90%]
Christian items only
[ 5 votes ] [8.06%]
Nothing at all
[ 49 votes] [79.03%]
Just the FSM
[ 0 ] [0.00%] (what? nobody?)
Spaghetti sprouts from where Its presence once stood.
Scroll below to see It touring Crossville
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24 comments:
Listen, Mayor Hill. This is what the public wants. Listen. No religious figures should be displayed on the courthouse lawn. Maybe your constituents want to keep Christian figures, but there should always be a separation of Church and State.
Presentation of images of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are heretical. There will be riots in the spaghetti aisle.
There is no such thing as "separation of Church and State" anywhere in the U.S. Constitution. It was made up out of thin air by the Supreme Court.
Also, why does the base of the statue say "..touched by ITS noodly appendage?" Ought to be "his".
love it
[but typical of those Cumberland Plattau highlander's :)]
[anon, East 10-E-C]
Funny - the creators of this thing don't have the guts to show their faces on the pictures of their creation. Figures.
To the "anonymous" above me... rather like you don't have the courage to sign your name on their blog?
The two creators have in no way tried to hide their identity. Please get over yourself.
To anonymous above... You note that the creators don't seem to have the "guts to show their faces"... Just like you don't seem to have the guts to share your name.
Think about it.
To Tennessee Budd,
You write that the Supreme Court made up the separation of church and state out of thin air. Perhaps you need to do some more research.
On Wikipedia,in the article titled "Separation of Church and State" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state ) they say "The phrase "separation of church and state" is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." [11]."
They go on to say "Another early user of the term was James Madison, the principal drafter of the United States Bill of Rights, who often wrote of "total separation of the church from the state." [12] "Strongly guarded . . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States," Madison wrote, and he declared, "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States." [13]"
So the term was used by two U.S. Presidents who also helped author our Constitution. They used this expression to explain what is meant by the portion of the First Amendment, that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"
So no, Budd, the term was not pulled from thin air. And by the way, even if it did originate with the Supreme Court as you say, it still has validity, since they Constitutionally exist to interpret Constitutional issues.
MOST triumphant! May you be blessed by His Noodliness. Ramen.
Anonymous may think the person who did this is gutless, but I say it took a real pair of [meat]balls. I'm phlegmmy and I approved this lawn art.
Look: FSM in space: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080327.html
NASA rocks.
I am a United States Citizen and a resident of this great County. I believes in the foundational values in which this country was founded and established - one nation under one God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ. You may try and pretend that our history and origin is something other but the truth is the truth. When I see your public display and hear your words I am truely facinated by the truth that I find in the Bible, The Word of God. The Bible clearly points to these days and your presence amoung us. For this I thank you. Your efforts and public displays strengthen me - I to, find myself asking God to forgive you as you know not what you do. May God Bless You.
I think the man who drafted the Declaration of Independence would disagree with your assertion of "one nation under one God":
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
well, my opinion sure won't count fer much, but hey.
It's a cool piece of art.
Dang proud to be in a country where artists FROM THIS COUNTRY can display artwork in the community.
And why won't my opinion count fer squat?
Because I'm from Indiana, and Indianapolis seems to have ytaken a thrill in hiring outside artists and buy art from out of state, out of country, to decorate Indiana.
At least in Tennessee they give the locals a chance, eh?
Tennessee may not be anchored as far back in the dark ages as I thought. Keep up the good work Crossville.
To Tennessee Budd and Anonymous -
Tennessee Budd wrote "There is no such thing as "separation of Church and State" anywhere in the U.S. Constitution."
You are correct that the phrase "Separation of Church and State" does not appear in the Constitution. However, that doesn't mean the principle does not exist.
Consider, for example, the phrase, "Right to Privacy". It too, is absent in those exact words from the Constitution. Would you deny that a right to privacy exists? I doubt that you would.
Anonymous wrote, "I believes in the foundational values in which this country was founded and established - one nation under one God, the father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
It is intersting to me that whenever one claims that this country was founded on Christian principles (or some similar claim), they are never able to provide so much as a shred of documentation to back it up.
The Constitution makes no mention of God, Jesus, or Christianity.
The Declaration of Independence, which was written before the foundation of our government, includes the terms "Nature's God" and "Creator".
There is no reference to any specific god or any specific religion. This was intentional, as our founding fathers did not wish to exclude anyone. Thomas Jefferson, who penned most of the Declaration, was a Deist, not a Christian, as were many of the other founders.
If you remember, the founding father's left England to escape, among other things, religious persecution. They were seeking to establish a colony where each individual would be free to practice his or her religion as he or she wished, with no government interference or coercion.
On the other hand, those who argue against the claim that the United States is a Christian nation can easily point to numerous historical references to support their position (as evidenced in earlier replies.)
Allow me to point out an additional reference for your consideration. I refer you to the Treaty of 1797 with Tripoli which reads in part "[T]he Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." The treaty was approved by the Senate and signed by John Adams.
If you are concerned that the phrase was taken out of context, some quick research will ease your concerns.
I hope that both of you will carefully consider the arguments being presented to you here. The seperation of Church and State benefits BOTH.
Again, a quick trip to the library is highly beneficial. For example, in the 1800's the Baptists were among those fighting to remove prayer from public schools. Why? Because the Protestants were the influential majority in the selection of the prayers to be said in the schools. The Baptists did not want their children influenced by Protestant prayer.
Remember, rights guaranteed in the Consitition are guaranteed to individuals and are not restricted to the majority.
I LIKE it! Good for you!
Remember, JESUS would have EVERYONE at the table.
(and then we could eat this yummy looking Flying Spaghetti Monster!)
DO I hear an Amen?
I am a FIRM believer in freedom of religion! Religious symbols do not belong anywhere on government property. And if one religious symbol is displayed, then ALL religious symbols should be displayed.
Our diversity and our right to free speech and freedom of religion are what make our country great. These basic rights allow us to openly exchange ideas. This open diaglogue allows for progress.
I applaud your efforts!!!
No words... they should have sent a poet.
Great job guys.
I just saw your statue on YouTube. Fantastic :-)
I think it's awesome that they'll allow you to put these on display at all! I'm glad there's a place you can put your art, religious or otherwise. I believe there should be a separation of Church and State. I know I just ticked off quite a few churchies but I do. Let's say there were no separation. A pastor who also is a state senator goes in and starts laying hands on other officials in the name of his religion. Others are burning incense and lighting candles and yet another religion is having you bow eastward for prayers. If there is religion in office then they'll make you chose only one religion. That's not what Jesus would do, now is it? God doesn't care what you believe, as long as you believe in him/her (no matter the name you call). Freedom of religion, Freedom of artistic impression and Freedom of speech! I think it's wonderful! :)
(keishamama said...)
"Freedom of religion, Freedom of artistic impression and Freedom of speech! I think it's wonderful!" :)
I understand that you are only trying to make a point here.... and I think that the point you are trying to make is wonderful... I completely agree with what keishamama said!! And, good for you! With ideas like this, we will be fine. We all need to learn to live together. I believe what I believe and I am happy with that... and someone else can believe what they believe and I am happy with that as well! We all need to learn to live together as one HUMANITY, not one religion. It is ridiculous to think that a society can all live together and follow the same religion. We are not going to accomplish anything that way. Whether a person agrees with what is placed on a courthouse lawn or not... freedom of speech, press, art, love, etc etc etc is what makes us Americans and we should be proud of that... just take a look at what is going on in the countries all around us.
Really commendable work.
I don't suppose there's an actual church for the FSM? I was just commenting that it would be great if there were a social institution where people could gather to discuss morality from a secular standpoint. I don't think the opportunity to discuss morality with others and hear their ideas is something that should be reserved exclusively for people who want to get into cloudland.
It'd also do a lot of good and serve as a great way to organize we doubting Tom's in some community service and/or social justice activities. Christianity has a big edge on both image and service largely because they're organized. While I may not be the greatest fan of organized religion, organized service is much more effective than scrambled, unsystematic effort. It would also help put a spotlight onto us as the upstanding people we are, despite what some would believe.
I'm a scant 2.5 hours away from Crossville myself.
Well, if anyone has information or interest, I can be reached at jwinn14@apsu.edu
Tennesse Budd (not mash?). Lots to learn here.
There is a GREAT special right now on John Adams HBO that does a wonderful job on the formation of our country and constitution.
Amazingly well done budd.
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